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Joesanchezr

I'm surprised that Grindr with its moderation policy hasn't banned Sk8ter Boy's account. They banned me for writing "If you think with your second head, please don't contact me". They later got back to me saying that profile texts should be "family friendly"... Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

Eric the TranscenDancer

Agreed, entirely! I believe in the politics of inclusion not exclusion, diversity not intolerance. Does that mean I'm intolerant of those who are exclusive? Hopefully, I keep giving love and take the sequellae, or consequences, whatever they may be.
I choose love as the answer no matter what the question.

Sampson

so on the one hand, having a preference is racism. But on the other, I'm allowed to have them?

Christian

There's a difference between a sexual preference, rascism, and a clearly racist comment like the one on the Grindr picture posted. Saying that men who aren't attracted to Asian, for instance, are all racist because of it completely removes the concept of sexual atraction, and you'Re saying that, you included, noone would be allowed anymore to discard anyone based on their physical appearance... whether it's race, looks in general or weight. That would be an aswesome world in which noone would really be single except the mean hearted ones, gyms would be empty and I wouldn't ax my back for the rest of my life! Utopia. The racism debate can't be brought to an interesting place or evolve in any way with an article such as yours, that will take such a basic thing as excluding someone from your sex/dating possibilities based on attraction and sexual preferences and turn it into a case of racsim. My humble opinion.

Hugo

Very interesting, as a homosexual guy I perfectly know when somebody talk about SegreGAYtion, sometimes you do not fit nowhere, even if you are homosexual or gay. There are discrimination in the gay community in base of racial, physical, health-related, economic situation, even if you do not live in the right neighborhood, is you are not a white european heritage, or if you are not a successful professional, etc, etc, etc...

P

i have to say that unfortunately it goes without saying that alot of people have their preferences, none-the-less .. if i was to put on my grindr only really into asians ... you people will still bring up how racist i am. so if someone raises the point that they arent into asians ... let them!

terry levine

Thanks for the comments. What I'm ultimately talking about here is showing some respect. If you're physically attracted to beefy hairy guys, well then, probably, Asian guys won't do it for you. But it's the disgusted attitude and irritation I see from (mostly) white guys that is racist, in my view. If someone you're not attracted to pays your a compliment, say thank you and move on. Or strike up a friendship. There's no need to make the person feel like shit. This is not strictly a race thing either. If you're not into overweight guys or even guys who are HIV+, you don't have to be abusive about it. Comments on people's profiles like "not into fats, femmes or Asians" is just that: abusive.

Alan

Having a preference is not racist. Grindr is a social network in which the majority who are using it are looking for sex, to be ignorant of that fact is naive. Racism is blurred these days and everyone is over sensitive. The guy being used as an example is a fool and insensitive, but a racist? Probably not. When looking at the context of the situation he is clearly trying to impress your friend by stating he is blocking others, in this case someone who is Asian, giving your friend the underline message "I'm in to you" in hopes the end result will be sex. Is he a complete douche for saying that? Yes! Is he limiting his chance to find a meaningful relationship by excluding a race or culture? Absolutely!
Racism is the belief that the genetic factors which constitute race, ethnicity, or nationality are a primary determinant of human traits and that ethnic differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race.
Nothing he said made him look superior...quite opposite in fact.
If he is racist you cannot conclude this from a sentence he wrote. If your friend asked him why he is blocking Asians? then and only then can you determine if he is a racist. You could possibly predict the outcome of his response with his first comment the odds are in your favor, but you can't judge someone without all the facts which clearly you have done.

TODD

Nothing wrong with having a preference. If you look collectively, as a group, in the gay community and were to survey men's types, ASIANS would not appear anywhere near the top or even middle of the list, in fact probably at the bottom. This isnt being racist, its a FACT. If there are guys out there who prefer them, then let them enjoy each and everyone of them, but for the vast majority, they dont want to be bothered with this group. This man is basically telling them to stay clear, cuz hes NOT interested in them in a romantic, or sexual way. He's not being racist to the cultural group. Grindr is about hookups, afterall, you are kidding yourself if you think its not. Could it have been written a little more nicely? Ya, sure, but Im not so sure his message would have gotten across.

mdmm

The cycle of abuse goes on... We feel better if we make someone else the victim.

Jon

Queers Against Israeli Apartheid aren't a hate group - they have issues with the fact that many gay groups often ally with Israel but ignore the fact that any palestinian or non-state-approved racial minority (including gay palestinians) is NOT afforded the same basic rights and privileges as an Israeli citizen. Add into that the demolishment of homes and 'colonization' of previously settled Palestinian properties, and it makes sense that a gay interest group would want to prevent the mixing of issues ("Sure, we treat Palestinians like crap, but look how great we are for gays!")

terry levine

TODD, I think your comments reveal that you don't really understand what racism is. The reason ASIANS are at the "bottom of surveys," as you put it, is precisely because of racism. It's only a "fact" because of people's inherent bigotry toward Asians who don't "want to be bothered with this group." Sorry, but your comments very much expose that you're part of the problem.

terry levine

Jon, I really don't want this post to turn into a discussion about QuAIA, but I'm sorry, they are most certainly a hate group. Israeli Arabs are indeed afforded the same basic rights as Israeli Jews. They vote, they are elected to parliament, and an Israeli Arab sits on the Supreme Court. Basic services are offered in Arabic. Arabic is even on Israeli coins and signage. Palestinians who live in the territories are a separate matter. They are not Israeli citizens -- nor do they want to be. For the record, I want Israel to withdraw from the West Bank ASAP and let Palestinians govern themselves as an independent country. But QuAIA is a sham because it purports to defend the rights of gay Palestinians while ignoring that the only gays in the Arab world who have any rights at all -- and who don't live in fear of being tortured or killed -- are those who live in the only democracy in the Middle East: Israel. That, sir, is a fact. QuAIA doesn't fight for the right to march in pride parades in defense of Egyptian gays who are imprisoned or Iranian gays who are tortured. That clearly shows that their real agenda is anti-Israel, not pro-gay rights. If they want to fight for gay rights across the Middle East, I'll join the group tomorrow.

Recarioca

I think there's a small contradiction between quotes 1 & 2:

#1
"Just ask most gay white males whether they've ever dated or would date an Asian, for instance, and you're likely to get the same look as someone who steps in poop on the sidewalk. Of course, if you call them on it or suggest their lack of openness is tantamount to racism, they get defensive. 'It's just a preference!' they insist."

#2
"We all have 'preferences' and that's certainly our right."

Anyway. It's one thing not to be sexually attracted to a racial group. I think you can even admit to it, and it would be wrong to accuse you of racism on that score alone. Another thing, however, is to turn down a job application if the person is Asian, or to say that Jews should be gassed (like Galliano just did).

The grindr loser should not be called a racist for not wanting to have sex with Asians. On the other hand, his crude language for all to see (that sentence was not a private message, btw, but an integral part of his grindr profile) really suggests he is one.

As for that tragic Queer group, its very use of the word "Apartheid" robs it of any intellectual respectability.

terry levine

Thanks Recarioca. Some fair points. But I think you do start getting into racist territory when you are not "sexually attracted to a racial group." That's the crux of my beef. It's fair to not be attracted to certain physical features. You might be into blue eyes or black hair or hairy chests. Those are the preferences I'm talking about that are acceptable in my view. But when you discount an entire racial group, and what's more, in the insensitive and demeaning way it's often done, I can't call that anything other than racism.

I make a point of saying in my post that there are levels of racism of course. No one is committing a crime here. But it's still wrong. If someone steals something worth $7 or $7,000, they might not deserve the same punishment or scorn, but they're both thieves, aren't they?

Recarioca

There are guys who aren't into blond men, or men with freckles. It's not racist, whether they are white or non-white. Or is it racist for a black man not to be into blonds? I don't think so. Not being attracted to a man because of their hair is the same as not being attracted to a man because they're black, or overweight, or "too old" (whatever age that is). Sexual attraction is quasi-binary: 1 or 0, either there or not there, for whatever reason. is Was Diana Ross racist for preferring white men? Where do you draw the line?

As long as you live and let live and do no harm, your sexual preferences are not to be construed as racism, whatever they are in terms of ethnicity. However, when they become the basis of rude comments on grindr or cause you to disadvantage a racial group "just because" (by turning them down for jobs etc.) then yes, we're no longer talking about just sex. Ditto for other alleged turn-offs like weight, age, etc.

terry levine

Recarioca, I think you give a whole lot of leeway when you say sexual attraction is "either there or not there, for whatever reason." Well, that last bit is why we're having this discussion. The reason matters. If your reason is you like freckles or straight hair or beefy or slim, those are, as you call it, quasi-binary "preferences." If the "reason" is that Asians are gross or blacks are inferior, and you've disqualified them all because of their race, then that's racist.

You say it yourself, Diana Ross "preferred" white men. Fine. But I bet she slept with black men. When you disqualify a whole group of people because of their race or ethnicity or cultural background, it's NOT a "preference."

I have friends who have been out for 25 years and have slept with 100s of men but have never slept with a black man. I'm sorry, it's hard for me to believe that there isn't some racist "reason" there. My preference is for shorter guys, but I've been attracted to tall guys. My preference is dark hair but I've been attracted to blonds. THOSE are preferences. But to make a sweeping statement and say "I don't date blonds" is bigoted. And to say I don't date Asians or blacks" is racist.

Finally, my grandmother used to be friendly and respectful when she served black people in her store. But she still thought someone white should have won Miss America when Vanessa Williams won because "you just can't compare a white person's beauty to a black person's." Was that racism? Of course! Just because she was nice to them in a social or business setting didn't mean she wasn't on one level racist. Racism isn't simply whether you discriminate in your job hiring practices. To think that's the only racism that exists out there is naive.

Another Jeremy


I completely agree with this post.

I think it's pretty obvious that there will probably be much disagreement about this for quite some time. I think it relates to a serious problem about the lack of diversity and acceptance in the gay community for anyone who isn't a white male. I also think it might ne why there is so much apathy in the "gay movement."

http://thenewgay.net/2010/08/why-am-i-not-attracted-to-black-men.html

terry levine

Thanks Jeremy. Did you write that other post you linked to? It's great.

Another Jeremy

I did not write it. But I commented with a vengeance. If you get bored you should read what some people say in defense of this mindset. There are quite a few articles on race on that website. This one is my favorite.

http://thenewgay.net/2009/09/the-racial-cop-out.html

Dre

First, I am SO glad to find this blog! As a man who happens to be black and gay, I am hard pressed to find anyone even willing to discuss this issue. I've lived in Los Angeles for almost 9 years and I am shocked at the level of racism in a place that is supposed to be so progressive. Sure, we are allowed to have our preferences, but the author is right! All you have to do is go on craigslist or any number of gay-oriented sites and you see posts of "white only" or "latino and asian only". There are certain people I do not find attractive for any number of reasons, but can I not at least be a potential friend? What is the point of posting things like "white only" or "black only"? I can't even compliment your profile? I can't contact you for any reason if I'm black or if I'm asian or if I'm whatever. You want nothing to do with me as a person- that's basically what you're saying. It only shows one thing: You are a jackass- "racist" or not.

terry levine

Thanks Dre. Glad you enjoyed it!

terry levine

re: my post, someone else's thoughts on the issue: http://metroweekly.com/news/opinion/?ak=5613

Bill

I have always excluded women as sexual partners because of 'preferences'-who am I trying to fool except myself ? I am a misogynist.

Thanks.I feel better,now! 'Just found this blog(a little late for the PC party),and will now forget it...

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